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MY SUMMATION
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RUNYON'S FOURTH NEGATIVE

Terry seeks to draw your attention away from his embarrassing lack of exegetical answers by making empty allegations that I “lied,” and, “took a lot of verses out of context, misapplied others, twisted others”; however, the studious Bible Exegete realizes the only ‘evidence’ Terry has provided has been his charade of Straw-Man diversions. Also of remarkable note is the nonchalant attitude of my opponent in completely ignoring his own admissions and blatant self-contradictions which confute his arguments, paradigm, and proposition which is an extraordinary demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Though Terry gives us a nearly 300-word demonstration in word gymnastics, I’ve finally forced him into admitting the truth as he says, “Luke 21:22 is qualified by the subject matter of the context.” Amen! However, this is short-lived as he returns to his contrived qualifier saying, “If ‘all things’ is qualified by the context, then it is ‘all things about the destruction of Jerusalem.’” There are many more things in the context than simply the destruction of the city, such as the sounding of the great trumpet and the resurrection from the dust (Isa.26:19) posited at the vindication of the martyrs (Isa.26:21; cf. Mat.23:29-33) when the altar would be turned to chalkstones (Isa.27:9); this, I demonstrated in my previous Negative, which, as you’ve noticed, was completely ignored.

Terry exhibits serious intellectual dysfunction by ignoring the text (Luk.18:32-33) I pointed out where Jesus cataloged “which things about the Son of man” were about to be fulfilled at Jerusalem, as he continues his obfuscatory farce.

Terry serves up another SM saying I “claimed that there was no future resurrection of the dead because he argues that Luke 20:37 says the dead ARE raised” (emphasis mine), something I never even came close to saying.

Terry redefines the present tense (“Now that the dead are rousing...” CLNT) as a past tense to fallaciously assert that I said the resurrection had already transpired. He fails to comprehend the nature of the resurrection. Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live,” (Joh.5:24-25, KJV). Audience, what is that transition from death into life if not resurrection? What else could Jesus mean when He says, “The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but HAS passed out of THE DEATH into THE LIFE,” (LITV/YLT).

That Jesus is not speaking of physical death and resurrection is inescapable. Just as when He says, “Verily I say unto you” (amen lego humin) is present-tense, and just as “he who hears” and “believes” likewise are present-tense, so is “‘has’ everlasting life.” Isn’t everlasting life and immortality synonymous concepts?! Since Jesus is not speaking of physical death, because the dead were hearing His words and believing, then the nature of the resurrection can’t be physical as Terry’s whole paradigm demands. Since it’s unquestionable from Jesus’ words here that resurrection was a presently-occurring reality, this demonstrates that Terry’s entire premise of this multifaceted topic is blatantly false. Jesus states that the one who hears and believes is the one who has everlasting life, and “has past” (perfect-tense) “out of” (εκ) “THE” (του, the definite article) “death” (θανατου, thantos) and “into” (εις, eis) “THE” (την, the definite article) “life” (ζωην).

The perfect-tense describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. Was Jesus wrong when He said those physically-alive, living/breathing human beings, who heard and believed had passed out of the death and into the life, once and for all, a transition that didn’t need to be repeated? This definitively proves Terry is egregiously mistaken as he refuses to deal with the actual argument that the death, is a personification of the death of Adam which Jesus conquered in His exodus (Luk.9:31) from Hades. Terry deceptively misrepresents Paul’s teaching that Jesus was the first (1Cor.15:20) to arise from the Adamic death, i.e., the firstfruit “out from among the dead ones” i.e., the pre-cross righteous dead (1Cor.15:12), and misconstrues/misapplies “spiritual death” so he can pound his Straw-Men of universalism and once-saved-always-saved, thus cloaking the actual heart of the argument.

Terry says, “Roy claimed that I claimed Lazarus was resurrected ‘to immortality.’ No! I said he was raised. I did not say he was raised to immortality.” The following statements are Terry’s own words taken from his 1st Affirmative of the BBD.

    1) Commenting on Joh.11:24, he said, “Martha believed that Lazarus would be raised at the last day. But Jesus was about to raise Lazarus before the last day. It was not a spiritual or metaphorical resurrection that Martha had in mind, nor was it a spiritual resurrection that Jesus performed on Lazarus. It was a physical and literal resurrection, not a metaphorical resurrection...The last day was when Lazarus would have been resurrected but Jesus raised him early. No one was raised like Jesus or Lazarus in AD 70.”

    2) Thus, Terry not only posits Jesus’ resurrection as “physical and literal,” he avers that Lazarus’ resurrection at the last day came early. Now, watch this as I continue to quote his words:

    3) “That immortal age begins at ‘the last day’ of this mortal age”;

    4) “The resurrection to immortality happens on the last day.”

Though he didn’t type the exact phrase “Lazarus was raised to immortality,” that is the inescapable conclusion of his statements.

So, I reiterate my question, Since Terry asserts that Jesus raised Lazarus early, unto everlasting/immortal physical life, where is he? Terry’s “for all we know” hermeneutic leaves him with egg all over his face as he fabricates his Straw-Man, then snidely accuses me of saying there are 2000 year-old people walking around on this “forever world”! Defining his proposition, he said, “Paul and Peter were killed before AD 70 and did not rise, become immortal, and are not walking around on this ‘forever’ world as Roy would claim. Nobody in the first century thought that Paul and Peter were raised and became immortal in the first century. This idea is relatively new and is based upon a false premise...” (emphasis mine), again a blatant breach of debate protocol! No Preterist I know of has ever said, nor inferred such an inane idea.

In the BBD, Steve pointed out that Jesus could not have been the “firstfruit” of a physical resurrection because there were others who were raised from the dead physically. Terry rebuts by saying, “Jesus was raised never to die again, and He WAS the firstfruit of that kind of resurrection,” (bolds mine). As shown above, Terry said that Lazarus was raised “like Jesus,” so where in the world is Lazarus?

Demonstrating that Terry’s questions on mortality/immortality, resurrection &etc., are implausible because he eisegetically misconstrues Paul’s resurrection-doctrine of a corporate-resurrection into an individual out-of-casket corpse-revivifying resurrection, he completely ignores contextual facts such as Paul’s resurrection-doctrine and “hope of the resurrection” was “the hope of Israel,” (Act.26:6-8/Act.28:20) taken from Moses and the prophets, and the promise of adoption/resurrection was a specific promise made to/belonging to “the fathers,” Paul’s brethren “after the flesh,” i.e., Old Covenant Israel, (Rom.8:23; 9:3-5; 15:8; Act.26:6-8).

Note that Terry conveniently ignored the inescapable timing of the RJUJ of Dan.12:1-2 which Jesus quoted and posited during His generation, in the portion of the Olivet Discourse which he admits was fulfilled in/by AD 70. Paul quotes Daniel’s RJUJ in Act.24:14-15 stating that this was the hope of Israel, therefore:

I don’t need the Bible to say anything as Terry asserts in his catastrophically specious word-collages on mello (imminence isn’t immediately!!) and spiritual resurrection; I merely point out what Holy Spirit said; nor did I invent the lexical evidence/definitions I presented in my previous Negative. Paul told the Corinthians (2Cor.6:16) they were exactly what Ezekiel foretold; Ezekiel 37 predicted the resurrection of Israel out of their graves (Eze.37:12-13;Joh.5:28-29); since the typological resurrection of Israel from Babylonian captivity could in no way be applied to the Corinthians, then the resurrection of the whole house of Israel (Eze.37:11,22) is Paul’s resurrection-doctrine taken from Moses and the prophets. Terry admitted that Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled in/by AD 70.

Terry asks, “I wonder if Jesus had one of those “out-of-casket corpse-revivifying” resurrections? (See 1 Cor.15).”

That Jesus’ physical body was resurrected is not questioned, since that was the only sign to be given to His wicked and sinful generation proving He was the Son of God; however, Terry ignores the fact that a sign never points to/signifies itself, i.e., a physical sign points to/signifies a spiritual reality.

Jesus said, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it...” (Mat.12:39-42), thus Jesus point-blank posited the judgment during His generation.

Firstfruits:

The term firstfruit is undeniably harvest terminology. John said “His fan is [present-tense] in His hand...” (Mat.3:12), which indicated the imminence of the harvest. Jesus said the harvest is “the end of this age” (Mat.13:39-40), i.e., the end of the Jewish age in which Jesus was living. Jesus said, “Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest,” (Joh.4:35).

The fact that Paul says “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep” (1Cor.15:20), unquestionably demonstrates that the harvest had begun. As documented above, Terry demands, “Jesus was raised never to die again, and He WAS the firstfruit of that kind of resurrection,” i.e., Jesus’ and Lazarus’ resurrection “was a physical and literal resurrection, not a spiritual/metaphorical resurrection.” Endeavoring to not misrepresent my opponent, he is arguing that Jesus was the firstfruits of his paradigmatic physical resurrection.

James, writing to the 12 tribes scattered abroad (Jas.1:1), said, “Having purposed, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a certain firstfruit of His creatures,” (Jas.1:18).

How could Jewish-Christians from the 12 tribes of Israel already be firstfruits without experiencing “that kind of” physical resurrection?

Paul said Epaenetus, “is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ,” (Rom.16:5).

How could Epaenetus “and the household of Stephanas” (1Cor.16:15) who were living breathing physically-alive human beings, already be firstfruits without experiencing “that kind of” physical resurrection? This is sufficient contextual evidence to demonstrate that Terry misconstrues the nature of the resurrection, but let’s continue.

John writes about the 144,000 taken from “all the tribes of Israel” (Rev.7:4-8), standing with an innumerable multitude (Rev.7:9) who “came out of the great tribulation,” (Rev.7:14), “standing before the throne” (Rev.7:9; cf. 2Cor.5:10). Recall the great tribulation of Dan.12:1-2 which Jesus interprets as the time of trouble (Mat.24:21) which Terry admits was fulfilled in/by AD 70.

John recapitulates the 144,000 “which were redeemed from the earth” saying, “These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb,” (Rev.14:3-4). This is when John sees “another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come” (Rev.14:6-7;1Pet.4:5,17), and the next angel says, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city,” (Rev.14:8). Terry admits Babylon is Jerusalem, and remember, he is adamant that “all things written about the destruction of Jerusalem” were fulfilled in/by AD 70.

At the time of the destruction of Babylon (Jerusalem) John sees “a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having...in his hand a sharp sickle” and another angel cries “with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped,” (Rev.14:14-19).

From what the scripture says, the firstfruits, which signaled the beginning of the harvest, and the harvest itself was completed without the first hint of “that kind of” physical resurrection, nor did the Son of man come out of the clouds!

Terry asserts, “1 Corinthians 15 is about the fact of Jesus’ resurrection (literal and physical) being the first fruits of what will follow later. Our resurrection will be like His, but it will happen at “the end” when “the last enemy,” death, will be destroyed (1 Cor.15:22ff).”

“I gave My back to those who struck Me, And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard; I did not hide My face from shame and spitting,” (Isa:50:6).

“Just as many were astonished at you, So His visage was marred more than any man, And His form more than the sons of men,” (Isa.52:14).

As documented above, Terry says, “The disciples had seen Him in His mortal flesh but had not seen Him in His IMMORTAL AND GLORIFIED state. That change happened in the ascension...” therefore, the inescapable conclusion is that (per Terry) Jesus was resurrected in the same physical body which bore such wounds from His crucifixion as to be unrecognizable by His disciples (Joh.21:4-7). Since Terry insists that “Our resurrection will be like His...” then you can expect to be resurrected in the same body in which you die, whatever its physical condition at death, perhaps, with crippled and/or missing limbs; riddled with cancer, Parkinson’s, or Alzheimer’s; mangled by a vehicle accident or war injuries, etc. I’m pretty confident that even Terry doesn’t believe the consequences of his specious farce, and you shouldn’t either.

Terry claims 1Cor.15:51 “clearly shows that those who sleep will be raised from that physical death sleep and the living will be changed to immortal.” Pure eisegesis!

I demonstrated in my 2nd Negative that Paul says, “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” Paul said ALL would undergo the same “change,” while Terry reconstructs Paul’s words to mean only those living at the second coming would/will be changed. This too was ignored.

This was also ignored.

Referent to his assertions on Gog/Magog in his 3rd Affirmative, Terry demonstrates his mythomania saying, “Roy didn’t answer it at all.” Note that in my 3rd Negative alone, I gave a 270+ word answer to his assertions. What Terry won’t answer is the fact that after the millennium, and after satan is released for short time, which Terry demands is “well beyond AD 70 (over 1300 years beyond AD 70),” the battle of Gog/Magog occurs, of which Terry admits, “the Lord of Hosts (mighty angels) came in His “glory” upon Jerusalem,” (emphasis mine).

Terry admits “the gospel brought Rome down,” but avers that “the 4th kingdom did not fall in AD 70.” Dear readers, to argue that the gospel destroyed the physical Roman empire nearly 500 years removed from the prophetic simultaneous consuming of all 4 kingdoms (Dan.2:34,35,44) is simply being obtuse!

Terry says, “Roy makes the argument that the law of Moses was binding as long as there was any unfulfilled prophecy.” No, I merely pointed out the words of Jesus (Mat.5:17-18;Luk.21:22).

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus posits the parousia of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven, with His angels, at the resurrection and the judgment in the lifetime of the 1st century generation, (Mat.24:34/Luk.21:20-32);

Where is the passage which posits the parousia/coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven, with His angels, at the resurrection of the just and unjust, and the Opening-Of-The-Books-Judgment outside the 1st century generation?